What is a station | Setup | Forum

Welcome to the ProTrak User Community Support Forum . The forum is designed around the chapters in The Manual. Please post your questions in the appropriate subforums. You may "Subscribe" to topics and reply by email.

A A A
Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_Print sp_TopicIcon
What is a station
February 24, 2016
11:22 pm
Avatar
Mark Stafflrd
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 58
Member Since:
June 14, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I have a question regarding the sections both in Jim's recipe box and the manual.

 

In both when trying to define the meanings of station, interval and siding  I am having difficulty.  It makes no sense at all.

That is ........

If the interval is "the distance from the previous station to this station" and the "length of the main is the distance from the clearance point of the previous passing siding to the clearance point of the present station"

And if we then relate those words with the diagram beneath then look the the definition of "station" and it implies that stations start at the end of the last station and go all the way to the end of the of our current station.

If that is true then every bit of track is in a "station"  Which bit is in this station and which bit is part of the next station.

That doesn't make sense to me guys.   Main lines are in between "stations" and the interval may very well be the main line up to the clearance point of each of the station entrances and exits on either side of that bit of main line as per the first statement in quotes above " the distance from the previous station to this station" one.  But to then go on to say (via the diagram) that stations INCLUDE the interval is in my opinion ........well, wrong!

What do you guys think.   Told you I am confused OR have I completely missed the pointLaughLaughLaugh

PS by the way, the manual explains all this with A and B and C etc without having those points maked references on the diagram, an oversight no doubt.

February 29, 2016
7:31 am
Avatar
Jim Moir
Admin
Forum Posts: 489
Member Since:
December 23, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

In railroading the word "station" has many meanings.  The meaning depends who you are talking with:  

   - In 1972, when I was teaching (railroad) surveying to first-year-engineering students, and you said "station" I would have first assumed you meant a survey point whose latitude, longitude and elevation were known.  i.e. survey stations along the track.  

   - In 1970, when speaking with a friend who was a conductor on CP, a station was "any named point".  If might be a building, or it might be just a sign (no building in sight).  Or it might be an entire geographic area ("Toronto"), within which there were many station-buildings ... and zones.

   - In 1974, when I was working on an automated dispatching system, things got a lot more complicated.

 

In ProTrak:

A)  Traffic:  

If you are modeling just the traffic on your railroad, all you need to do, for a station is enter a) the name and b) a zonecode for that station.   The station is a "geographic area", with one zone code.

The zone code is needed if there are customers, staging tracks, junctions or interchanges at that station.  The zonecode is what "stitches" your railroad together.

 

B)  If you are also modeling dispatching activities on your railroad you plainly need "distances".  There are two "distances":  1) the length of a passing siding and the associated parallel main track , and 2) the distance between adjacent passing sidings.  The total of all these "distances" is the length of your railroad.

What to call these two distances?   And what to associate these distances with?

For an answer we can go to computer-based train performance calculators, traffic programs, or automated dispatching systems.  There we find, that for ease of memory and association, the "main-track/passing siding" distance is associated with a "station" (irrespective of where the building is.  Or sign.)   

Now, for the distance between passing-sidings... a)  the distance between main-track/passing-siding has >no< name by definition.  Or it would be a station in its own right.  No name.  Therefore this distance is associated with some named location... which is the main-track/passing-sidng-distance.    b) there are two such distances, one to the east and one to the west.  So we pick a definition, somewhat arbitrarily, noting that "1" is (and odd numbers are) for an "east to west" direction: the distance >to the east< between passing-sidings we associate with the main-track/passing-siding.    We need a label for this distance (shorter than "the distance between main-track/passing-siding"). Let's call this distance the "interval".

Where is the separation point between "main-track/passing" and the "interval".  Turning to the operating rules we see the concept of "clearing up" "at a switch".  We pick the clearance point at the end of the "main-track/passing-siding" as the separation point.

So know we are at the situation as shown on the defintion diagram on page 42 of the Recipe Book.

 

There is some additional utility for this method of schematizing the "main" (dispatcher-controlled) trackage defined this way.  Double-track, or two main tracks (or three or four main tracks).  If we set the "interval" to zero, then what we have is a series of "two parallel tracks" (or three or four...)

Note that this is only about "dispatcher-controlled" track.

 

~~~~

 

There is a lot more, about "station" definitions.   But are we OK so far?

             Jim

March 1, 2016
3:47 pm
Avatar
Mark Stafflrd
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 58
Member Since:
June 14, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thanks Jim,  I appreciate all the time and effort that you put in for my understanding.  Both your 1972 and 1970 concepts of a "station" are as I have seen as the normal definition of stations.

I also tend to see myself operating Protrak in a traffic type mode and I by default see myself having a number of "stations" with as big an amount "mainline" in between each station.

I had not given any thought to what a computer would call these "mainline" pieces of track.

If I may paraphrase your explanation, it may be that I might finally 'get' what your saying.

At a location on our railroad we have a thing called a "station" and to the east we have a mainline (even numbered) and to the west we have another mainline (odd numbered).

We dispatched our train to a distant location and use the station name that we intend to send our train too to not only name our destination but the mainline we need to use to get there.

interval and clearance points define exactly where we start and end these sections of track (for dispatching purposes)

Am I getting closer?  

Cool

March 1, 2016
4:31 pm
Avatar
Nashville
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 248
Member Since:
May 11, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Me too.  I read it on my cell and was going to answer on the computer but forgot.  Thanks for the station clinic, Jim.  These online clinics can be very helpful. Best, Andy 

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 4:47 PM, ProTrak.org wrote:

Best, Andy Keeney

Look out for #1 but don't step in #2!!

Forum Timezone: America/Chicago

Most Users Ever Online: 189

Currently Online:
9 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

Nashville: 248

Joe-SVL: 243

casowest: 95

Jim Brewer: 92

Mark Stafflrd: 58

Bob: 53

Fred: 43

John V: 43

jjoyce1: 32

Peter Jackson: 27

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 0

Members: 259

Moderators: 0

Admins: 5

Forum Stats:

Groups: 3

Forums: 13

Topics: 432

Posts: 1815

Newest Members:

Fred52, ferretjack, Frank, bcole_-8@rogers.com, frich1230, waffle2@mac.com, innovativerc@gmail.com, KRFARRINGTON, George Giles, NandWSRY55

Administrators: earlyrail: 71, friscomike: 130, webmaster: 1, hunter48820: 23, Jim Moir: 489